Questions for French Fans . . . pour le Français

par **Chauve-Souris** » 22 Mai 2006, 06:10

Pete a écrit:...(a whole bunch of interesting stuff!)....

Extremely interesting, Pedrito! Merci ever so!

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par **kagetsu** » 22 Mai 2006, 01:16

Anonymous a écrit:
Pete a écrit:You make me remind that the gender of things in some languages sometimes come from polytheistic religions. Only one example : why in french we say LE soleil and LA lune, and in german DIE Sohne and DER Mond ? Because in the latine religion, the sun was a god (Apollo) and the moon a goddess (Diane), whereas in the germanic pantheon the sun was a goddess and the moon a god.

I never thought of that. Interesting, and I just sort of stumbled in here.

arshen lihger ^ that was me again, how'd I get logged out?

par **Invité** » 22 Mai 2006, 01:14

Pete a écrit:You make me remind that the gender of things in some languages sometimes come from polytheistic religions. Only one example : why in french we say LE soleil and LA lune, and in german DIE Sohne and DER Mond ? Because in the latine religion, the sun was a god (Apollo) and the moon a goddess (Diane), whereas in the germanic pantheon the sun was a goddess and the moon a god.

I never thought of that. Interesting, and I just sort of stumbled in here.

par **Pete** » 21 Mai 2006, 21:20

Chauve-Souris a écrit:My concern isn't about what, if any, trouble it is to learn this form. As a benevolent king I prefer the English way because it conveys more information. You can see the possessee in the sentence, but the possessor is often not explicitly indicated, so indicating his or her gender prevents confusion.

Not wrong... And often the gender of the possessee is pointless, when it's not a person.

Wowww! I didn't know that! That's really interesting. Come to think of it, I wonder what the French Canadians do about this?
Anyhoo, I like "octante" much better than my "huitante" -- even we kings are willing to accept better ways.

Septante, octante, nonante are only used in Belgium and francophone Switzerland (and in Zaïre and Rwanda, the two former Belgian colonies), not in Canada.

Weird numbers (soixante-dix, quatre-vingts, etc) come from old french, as you can read here :

http://www.academie-francaise.fr/langue ... l#septante

It's called anthropomorphization (I think), attributing personalities to inanimate devices.
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You make me remind that the gender of things in some languages sometimes come from polytheistic religions. Only one example : why in french we say LE soleil and LA lune, and in german DIE Sohne and DER Mond ? Because in the latine religion, the sun was a god (Apollo) and the moon a goddess (Diane), whereas in the germanic pantheon the sun was a goddess and the moon a god.

par **Chauve-Souris** » 21 Mai 2006, 04:55

Pete a écrit:When I started to learn english, I had to deal with the gender matching to possessor, and I believe I succeeded without so much pain....

My concern isn't about what, if any, trouble it is to learn this form. As a benevolent king I prefer the English way because it conveys more information. You can see the possessee in the sentence, but the possessor is often not explicitly indicated, so indicating his or her gender prevents confusion.
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Pete a écrit:...the belgians say septante, octante (or huitante), and nonante....

Wowww! I didn't know that! That's really interesting. Come to think of it, I wonder what the French Canadians do about this?
Anyhoo, I like "octante" much better than my "huitante" -- even we kings are willing to accept better ways.
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Olivier a écrit:I'm still here and reading, C-S, don't worry

Hooray, I haven't been seeing you even in the French forum, so I was afraid you were in jail, or something....
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Olivier a écrit:Speaking about genders: why the hell do you say "she" for a boat?

Boat owners and captains are always gushingly sentimental about their boats, so they think of them as some sort of mistress or mother -- hence the "she" appellation. Just like the way many ladies insist on naming their automobiles "Fluffy-Poo" and sickening things like that. And guys call their shotguns "Old Betsy" and refer to them as "she". It's called anthropomorphization (I think), attributing personalities to inanimate devices.

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par **Olivier** » 20 Mai 2006, 11:09

I agree that saying "quatre-vingt-dix-sept" is somewhat awkward. Moreover, quatre-vingts takes an "s", whereas quatre-vingt-(whatever number) does not... Funny, isn't it?

Speaking about genders: why the hell do you say "she" for a boat? :scratch:

P.S. I'm still here and reading, C-S, don't worry

par **Pete** » 20 Mai 2006, 09:46

Chauve-Souris a écrit:1) The usage of possessive pronouns will be changed so that they match the gender of the possessOR, and not the gender of the possessEE. For example, one will no longer say: "He spanked her own daughter." Instead, one will say: "He spanked his own daughter."

Why not, why not, but I don't think it's an insurmountable rule. When I started to learn english, I had to deal with the gender matching to possessor, and I believe I succeeded without so much pain

2) I will create the words septante, huitante, and neufante and do away with all this "four-twenty-seventeen" for 97, etc. The mathemeticians will love me (until they have to pay my taxes).

Well, you should be the king of Belgium, because the belgians say septante, octante (or huitante), and nonante instead of soixante-dix, quatre-vingt, quatre-ving dix. I think it's more logical, but i'm french so i use the strange system

(Don't get angry, anyone -- I'm just kidding around here. But I wouldn't be surprised if you tell me that these things have already been proposed many times.)

Not these things, sorry, but some orthograph reforms, yes

I'm surprised you didn't talk about a reform n°3 : to ressurrect the neutral, because to assign a gender to everything is crazy. I guess it's a nightmare for anglophones...

par **Chauve-Souris** » 20 Mai 2006, 06:00

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Well, I've been messing around with the French language for two years now, and have been enjoying it immensely. However, I have decided that when I become the King of France, I will make two changes in the language:
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1) The usage of possessive pronouns will be changed so that they match the gender of the possessOR, and not the gender of the possessEE. For example, one will no longer say: "He spanked her own daughter." Instead, one will say: "He spanked his own daughter."
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2) I will create the words septante, huitante, and neufante and do away with all this "four-twenty-seventeen" for 97, etc. The mathemeticians will love me (until they have to pay my taxes).
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(Don't get angry, anyone -- I'm just kidding around here. But I wouldn't be surprised if you tell me that these things have already been proposed many times.)

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par **Pete** » 12 Mai 2006, 00:24

AELITA_LYOKO129 a écrit:what season are you on?

The first airing of the season 2 is ended. There is now rebroadcasting. Saison 3 will start in september.

par **AELITA_LYOKO129** » 11 Mai 2006, 23:45

what season are you on?

par **Olivier** » 07 Avr 2006, 19:55

Chauve-Souris a écrit:the article says é is pronounced like "été, manger, veuillez", which is, indeed, exactly how an anglophone pronounces "Fay".

"fay" is pronounced like this:

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/pron/F0057600.wav

which would be written "fè" or "fê" in French. Compare with "été" on the page given by Pete: it's not the same sound. The pronunciation of the words on the page I gave is not very good; obviously it was done by an anglophone (I should have chosen a better page...).

EDIT: on Pete's page, you even have "fée" pronounced (along with some other words). Check for it!

Chauve-Souris a écrit:What the article doesn't cover is how ée is pronounced.

"ée" and "é" are pronounced the same (the final e is a silent letter).

par **Pete** » 07 Avr 2006, 10:43

garooob a écrit:(Perhaps this discussion is best suited for another topic: "Questions for French Fans . . . pour le Français!")

You're quite right

try this link :

http://www.languageguide.org/francais/g ... unciation/

the "ée" of fée is pronounced as the [e] of the two first examples.

par **garooob** » 06 Avr 2006, 04:14

Oh, man! I forgot about that! Hopefully Clem hasn't been on the force long enough to be riot police...

par **Pete** » 05 Avr 2006, 11:50

Chauve-Souris a écrit:-
I was watching the Paris riots, live, today. Fierce stuff -- I hope Clem isn't under one of those uniforms....

Fortunately, riots are very marginal here...

par **Chauve-Souris** » 05 Avr 2006, 04:58

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I was watching the Paris riots, live, today. Fierce stuff -- I hope Clem isn't under one of those uniforms....
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Eventually the time arrived to watch, live, Lyon's Champions' League game at Milan. That wasn't any more satisfying than the riots though, as Lyon (and my favorite coach, "Houllie") got eliminated. How depressing!

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par **Chauve-Souris** » 29 Mar 2006, 06:27

garooob a écrit:The point is that I know what you're going through, French kids! We have to stick together as kids and as workers! Solidarity!

Is it really "kids"? I've always felt that the victims are the unmarried workers. And it just so happens that kids are nearly always unmarried.
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Single people (including kids) get hired last, paid least, and layed-off first. Inbetween times they are expected to work more extra time, because everyone knows they have no worthwhile life outside.... And everyone knows that their only expenses in the world are an occasional jar of peanut butter and case of beer, so why pay them as much as the married drones?
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Geez, I shouldn't get started on this subject. Can you tell I'm a lifelong bachelor? (My motto:

"Marriage is a living death.")
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(Rooobs, your competence and ambition probably made your supervisor feel threatened, so he got rid of you, and kept the "safe" ones.)
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par **garooob** » 29 Mar 2006, 04:14

Olivier a écrit:But how do you know about that?

I read a lot of news. The BBC has good coverage of Europe.

From what I hear, in the past, once you got a job, you pretty much stayed with that company for life. This new law basically puts new workers under 26 years old on a probationary period of 2 years, during which, the company can fire you for no reason.

That's pretty harsh and I don't think it's going to accomplish its goal of lowering unemployment. I would be out in the streets, too. It's kind of like that in the US, though. Many companies only hire people temporarily to see if they work out. Also, some companies write in their contracts that they reserve the right to fire you for no reason. Workers in the US don't have many laws protecting them, but hard work and company loyalty will help you.

Anecdote: My previous job was with a company called Medicis. They hired me through a temp agency, along with 4 other people. We all had the same job. We would work for 3 months and they would choose 3 of us to give permanent jobs to. One guy found a permanent job before then, so there were just four of us. Two of the guys did almost no work, while me and the other guy did all the work. After 3 months, they decided to hire everyone but me! They never gave me a good reason, either. "We just don't have the money to hire all of you." About a month later, I heard that one of the guys they had hired quit anyway, so SCREW YOU, MEDICIS! Now I have a permanent job at HSAG; in fact, it's the job my boss had at Medicis! And I get paid more!

The point is that I know what you're going through, French kids! We have to stick together as kids and as workers! Solidarity!

par **Sonic Hachelle-Bee** » 28 Mar 2006, 12:28

Olivier> Yeah, that can be surprising the first time, to know that others countries worry about us. You know, France isn't the lost world, and most countries like to see what's going on here, just like we are looking all the time what's happen in their country too, especially in Europe and United States.

It was the same with these riots in November. I "strangely" wasn't online for a few days (some hard work). Some guys overseas were even anxious and sad about me seeing what they can read and watch in the press and on TV. When I finally went back and read the comments, I was very surprised.

But yes Olivier, you are right. I don't know exactly what to think about the new job laws. There are some good points in both points of view: government and people. Basically, I'm neutral.

par **Olivier** » 28 Mar 2006, 10:50

garooob a écrit:how are things in France?

As usual: there are strikes. What would be France without strikes and marches?

But how do you know about that?

par **garooob** » 28 Mar 2006, 09:47

Again, how are things in France? Anyone from Yumi2004 taking to the streets in protest?
I hear "L'Homme" (The Man) is trying to stick it to us kids again. What do you think of the new job laws ?

par **stephen42** » 08 Fév 2006, 07:31

lol don't worry chauve-souris... if it's strange, it's french! lol :lol:

par **Chauve-Souris** » 08 Fév 2006, 07:03

Olivier a écrit:...They're pronounced the same (we don't say the final g).

Tell me about it! You guys don't pronounce the final letter(s) on ANYthing! It's driving me sane.... SANE, I tell you!

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par **garooob** » 22 Déc 2005, 05:25

Olivier a écrit:http://www.wordreference.com/fren/ricain
http://www.wordreference.com/fren/hein

Hey, that's a pretty useful site! Thanks, Oliver!
And now I understand.

par **Olivier** » 21 Déc 2005, 14:26

garooob a écrit:don't know what they mean and neither does the translator.

http://www.wordreference.com/fren/ricain
http://www.wordreference.com/fren/hein

Chauve-Souris a écrit:Like good-natured Italians call themselves "wops", Poles: polocks

And "froggies" for French people

par **Chauve-Souris** » 21 Déc 2005, 08:06

garooob a écrit:Say, CS, could you enlighten us on some of the French slang that you know more about than us? Like ricain and hein. I see them, but don't know what they mean and neither does the translator.

Soiten'y, soiten'y.
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"ricain" is just the latter part of "Americain". It's one of those words, like "gringo" and "limey" that are offensive or not depending on whether you "smile when you say that, podnuh". I use it to refer to myself a lot because it sort of unarms people who are thinking of using it on me offensively. Like good-natured Italians call themselves "wops", Poles: polocks, etc., etc. My traducteur translates "ricain" simply as "yank", incidentally.
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"hein?" translates exactly as "eh?" or "huh?", plain and simple. The characters in my French-language manga(s) use it heavily. It happens to be one of those rare words that are more easily understood when heard than when read, because it's pronounced "unh?', very close to our "huh?" I don't understand why traducteurs don't handle it well, because it is a very consistent, tacked-on, uncomplicated word. It's also used all by itself, perhaps by a surprised person, but the parallel is still the same. (Most traducteurs are intended for business correspondence -- I guess that's it.)
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Fun for us ricains, hien?

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